Presidential Pardons

[brettbh]

Why the heck are these allowed to happen in the US? Why on earth should an idiot like Dubya Shrub have the power to overrule the courts? Could somebody enlighten me?

Breaking a logjam of hundreds of pent-up clemency requests, President Bush yesterday granted pardons to 14 people and shortened the prison terms of two others.

Read more.

[mountainhiker]

Why the heck are these allowed to happen in the US? Why on earth should an idiot like Dubya Shrub have the power to overrule the courts? Could somebody enlighten me?

Breaking a logjam of hundreds of pent-up clemency requests, President Bush yesterday granted pardons to 14 people and shortened the prison terms of two others.

Read more.

ALL presidents do this both republican and democratic, he has done less than some of the others, but I guess some idiots would not know that! B)

[brettbh]

ALL presidents do this both republican and democratic, he has done less than some of the others, but I guess some idiots would not know that!

I'm perfectly aware that all presidents grant pardons. My question is why is an elected official permitted to override the judicial process?

[Simon]

I'm perfectly aware that all presidents grant pardons. My question is why is an elected official permitted to override the judicial process?

And that is a good question. They dont do that back here in northern Europe. Is it only US of A that does this?

[brettbh]

Is it only US of A that does this?

No, Iran does too ;-) And some other places.

[mountainhiker]

No, Iran does too ;-) And some other places too.

There are a few others also and "My question is why is an elected official permitted to override the judicial process?" in the US and several of the other countries it is PART of the judicial process. It serves as a safety valve since it is highly possible for the judicial process to fail, politics remember, and people can be set free for "questionable" judicial actions. Happens in ALL countries, the US and several other just recognized it.....

[brettbh]

It serves as a safety valve since it is highly possible for the judicial process to fail, politics remember, and people can be set free for "questionable" judicial actions.

... a safety valve which enabled Shrub Snr to pardon the Reagan administration officials convincted in connection with the Iran-Contra affair and for Shrub Jnr to commute Scooter Libby's sentence.

What's wrong with a process that relies entirely upon juducial review (appeal)? Why should El Presidente be permitted to tamper? Especially as El Presidente's pardons often lack public support and are considered to have been made for reasons of political expediency rather than to correct a miscarriage of justice?

[Karl]

Many aspects of the US presidential system seem to be relics from the 19th century. Many of those reflected the social hierarchical ideologies of that era, and while some have outlived their usefulness (or social acceptability), nobody has bothered to change / update them. A good example is the electoral college -- which allowed GW Bush to be declared as president on the basis of winning Florida by 500 votes even though he lost the overall election by 500,000 votes. It is possible that these powers of overruling the courts may very well be in a similar class.

But the important point -- he has every right to exercise his power to overrule the courts, whether or not he is an "idiot", since he did not exactly appoint himself to a position of such power, it was the US citizens themselves! While they may have done something more positive this time around in the last election, there is no way of preventing GW Bush from exercising his powers however he chooses to interpret them (at least until the end of January )

[brettbh]

But the important point -- he has every right to exercise his power to overrule the courts, whether or not he is an "idiot", since he did not exactly appoint himself to a position of such power, it was the US citizens themselves!

Unless, that is, the result could have been swung by the 5000 ballots that Bud, the hillybilly sheriff of Hicksville, forgot that he'd left in the trunk of his Chevy when rushing out the door for his breakfast of a 32 ounce steak, a dozen eggs sunny side up, grits, five corn dogs, ten pancakes with syrup, 15 waffles with syrup, a bag of donuts with ice cream all washed down with a bottle of diet root beer. The rumour is that those votes never did end up being counted.

But, yeah, I suppose that they did rather bring it on themselves, didn't they.

[mountainhiker]

Many aspects of the US presidential system seem to be relics from the 19th century. Many of those reflected the social hierarchical ideologies of that era, and while some have outlived their usefulness (or social acceptability), nobody has bothered to change / update them. A good example is the electoral college -- which allowed GW Bush to be declared as president on the basis of winning Florida by 500 votes even though he lost the overall election by 500,000 votes. It is possible that these powers of overruling the courts may very well be in a similar class.

But the important point -- he has every right to exercise his power to overrule the courts, whether or not he is an "idiot", since he did not exactly appoint himself to a position of such power, it was the US citizens themselves! While they may have done something more positive this time around in the last election, there is no way of preventing GW Bush from exercising his powers however he chooses to interpret them (at least until the end of January )

And despite your what you think, "pardons often lack public support", 99% of the time they do have public support and some times the public is the ones that have been pushing encourgement for the pardons to take place.

[brettbh]

And despite your what you think, "pardons often lack public support", 99% of the time they do have public support and some times the public is the ones that have been pushing encourgement for the pardons to take place.

That still does not explain why a single person should be permitted to override judicial process. I mean, is a man who eats kittens for breakfast considered to have better judgement than the appellate courts?

[mountainhiker]

That still does not explain why a single person should be permitted to override judicial process. I mean, is a man who eats kittens for breakfast considered to have better judgement than the appellate courts?

The pic of him eating kittens is total bull shit! Get a life, surely you are not dumb enough to fall for that one....

[brettbh]

The pic of him eating kittens is total bull shit! Get a life, surely you are not dumb enough to fall for that one....

He eats puppies too.

[mountainhiker]

He eats puppies too.

I assume that you have eaten a few puppies your self and are an expert on the subject :lol:

[brettbh]

I assume that you have eaten a few puppies your self and are an expert on the subject

Nope. I prefer pig meat. Smoked and then burnt to a crisp.

[Simon]

Ah come on! The above picture is so clearly photoshopped! This one on the other hand...

[mountainhiker]

Ah come on! The above picture is so clearly photoshopped! This one on the other hand...

as long as that was a potential democrat its ok....

[brettbh]

Yup, it's amazing how he's managed to get away with this type of stuff for so long. Or maybe not. When you have the CIA to clean up and eliminate witnesses, I suppose it's easy enough to do.

What do you think of claims that he is the Antichrist?

[mountainhiker]

Yup, it's amazing how he's managed to get away with this type of stuff for so long. Or maybe not. When you have the CIA to clean up and eliminate witnesses, I suppose it's easy enough to do.

What do you think of claims that he is the Antichrist?

What do you think of claims that obama is the Antichrist? Well regardless of some research that might lend itself to that conclusion, I doubt it but, it does show how easy it would be for the Antichrist to come to power. No one know obama existed and poof, he is running for President with no real track record of doing anything. Oh wait, he did vote "present" a lot!

And you have the press in other countrys falling at his feet and crying "the savior of the world has come". But, he has a long way to go and the first time he screws up we will have to see if they toss it off or jump him like the bunch of shallow minded dogs they are... :D

[brettbh]

What do you think of claims that obama is the Antichrist?

It's possible, but Shrub is definitely a more likely candidate. I mean, just look at his minion. What further proof do you need?

[mountainhiker]

It's possible, but Shrub is definitely a more likely candidate. I mean, just look at his minion. What further proof do you need?

Wow, what humor, that minion would hardly qualify anyone for the job. Now on the other hand if you look at some of the minions of obama, like Hillary, well now there is a scary minion...... :D

[Simon]

What do you think of claims that obama is the Antichrist? Well regardless of some research that might lend itself to that conclusion, I doubt it but, it does show how easy it would be for the Antichrist to come to power. No one know obama existed and poof, he is running for President with no real track record of doing anything. Oh wait, he did vote "present" a lot!

And you have the press in other countrys falling at his feet and crying "the savior of the world has come". But, he has a long way to go and the first time he screws up we will have to see if they toss it off or jump him like the bunch of shallow minded dogs they are...

So.. What is really the differance between the Antichrist and the Devil?

It's possible, but Shrub is definitely a more likely candidate. I mean, just look at his minion. What further proof do you need?

Right on! :lol:

[mountainhiker]

Right on!

obama is the one who the weak minded in Europe had fall at his feet in worship even though he has no track record.. better candidate but you are most likely wrong about either of them....

[Simon]

obama is the one who the weak minded in Europe had fall at his feet in worship even though he has no track record.. better candidate but you are most likely wrong about either of them....

Well, the hell would froze over when the day comes and Europe (and the rest of the world) would rather prefer an Republican... :lol:

[brettbh]

So.. What is really the differance between the Antichrist and the Devil?

What is really the difference between the Easter Bunny and Father Christmas?

But, according to superstitious nutcases, the Devil is the organ grinder; the AC is his monkey. IOW, Shrub (or Brush or whatever his name is) is Old Nick; the AC is his minion, Cheney.