Why is climate change not in the USA primaries?

[Steve_Barker]

Had a look at the following:

http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2008/0 ... 477634.php

In the UK the Green Party has had an electoral agreement with

Mebyon Kernow, the party of Cornwall

http://www.mebyonkernow.org

In Leeds the Greens and the Liberals ( http://www.liberal.org.uk/ ) agree not to stand against each other.

If you look at Mid Beds Council websites list of councilors, you find that for practical reasons (UK councilors only get admin support if there is a group, i.e. 2 or more) the 1 green councillor is a member of the Independant group:

http://committees.midbeds.gov.uk/mgMemb ... &PIC=0&J=1

So I can see some sense in working with a local party in New Orleans. I do not believe there is a right or wrong way to be politically green - but a willingness to look beyond what we have now, and being prepared to work towards it.

[mountainhiker]

So I can see some sense in working with a local party in New Orleans. I do not believe there is a right or wrong way to be politically green - but a willingness to look beyond what we have now, and being prepared to work towards it.

Steve good point except that with her it is not a issue of right or wrong way to be politically green. She got bounced out of the Democratic party in Georgia because she was a bit of a racists and clearly stopped representing the people that had elected her to promote her own views.

She clearly, was not "green" either in any sense of the word, just leaped on that bandwagon thinking they would adopt her, has not happened.

She is not talking about working with a local party in New Orleans, but starting a new one(when you can not find a party that is willing to change what it stands for - create a new one).

[Simon]

There is an alternative:

http://www.runcynthiarun.org/

Whilst we continue voting for the politicians because they are less wrong than the rest, we just get taken for granted

Of course there are alternatives. But the problem is that the US-political system is built on expensive nation-wide TV ads.

[Steve_Barker]

She clearly, was not "green" either in any sense of the word, just leaped on that bandwagon thinking they would adopt her, has not happened.

Lets hope someone else gains the Green nomination, and she either gets on and supports them, or moves on.

[Steve_Barker]

But the problem is that the US-political system is built on expensive nation-wide TV ads.

Is not the power of money much of the battle, be it politics, energy conservation, or trying to buy an ethical toothpaste?

[mountainhiker]

Lets hope someone else gains the Green nomination, and she either gets on and supports them, or moves on.

No chance of her getting the Green nomination, hers was truly a last minute switch of parties. She appears to already be moving on.

[mountainhiker]

But the problem is that the US-political system is built on expensive nation-wide TV ads.

Is not the power of money much of the battle, be it politics, energy conservation, or trying to buy an ethical toothpaste?

On the surface, it is built on the nation-wide TV ads, but, there is also a massive "grass roots" political organization in both parties that can swing the election at any time. The "war" is for the people in the middle. The scary thing going on now is the surge for Obama, a candidate with no track record, who has never accomplished anything. Oh, other than sound good and promise to save the world! To pay for what he has promised so far will take the GNP of the US, Canada and the entire EU.

[Steve_Barker]

Just seen that Nader is going to run, yet the green primaries are still going on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7261670.stm

Will there be a Green candidate and Nader?

[mountainhiker]

Just seen that Nader is going to run, yet the green primaries are still going on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7261670.stm

Will there be a Green candidate and Nader?

Well, you have some "Greens" wanting to draft him and others getting sick of him. Although he has done a lot of good for consumers, he led attacks on such evils as Volkswagen cars, the American Automobile Association, whole milk, colored toilet paper, fluoridated water, and the Elvis stamp. Evil depending on your sense of humor!

The Democrats hate him and blame him for Bush wining the election (hey, you cannot expect them to take the blame! )

Does he have any chance

[Simon]

Just seen that Nader is going to run, yet the green primaries are still going on

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7261670.stm

Will there be a Green candidate and Nader?

The more, the merrier.

[mountainhiker]

The more, the merrier.

Well, the general feeling is that Nader is not going to "really" run. Most of those with political knowledge are saying he has run one too many times to be taken seriously.

Betting he will not be the Green candidate!

[Simon]

Well, the general feeling is that Nader is not going to "really" run. Most of those with political knowledge are saying he has run one too many times to be taken seriously.

Betting he will not be the Green candidate!

That might be true. But he sure is the most known un-known candidate outside of the crappy two-party system.

[mountainhiker]

That might be true. But he sure is the most known un-known candidate outside of the crappy two-party system.

The problem is not that he is un-know, the problem is that he is too well know as a fringe runner. Sort of like a horse race. If this is the 20th race a horse has been in and it has never been any higher that last place, the 21st race, how many people are going to bet on it to win? That is Nader!

[Simon]

I know Im gonna steal this topic for a moment, but Im just to angry to care (if you care tell the moderator and I will tell him to ignore you

At the last election in Sweden the Socialdemocrats lost to an "alliance" of right-wing parties. This was mostly because people were tired of the frontrunner for the socialdemocrats and because his popular successor got murdered..

The right-wing government started well, but two months after they got elelcted their approval ratings went down, and down. They are still extremely low and they aint getting better.

Now our prime minister went to the UK to talk with Brown about climate change etc. He potrayed Sweden as the greenest country bla bla bla.

But the truth is that all the gren progress in Sweden have been made under a left-green ruling.

The current right-wing prime minister stops policitcal decisions and tax cuts that will make it easier for people and companies to green and he refuses to stop new highway and aviation projects that will increase our co2 emissions above the required cuts from EU. He also refuses to build out the railway, as the swedish climate comission have asked for, saysing it would be too expensive. He also says no to 40% cuts in greenhosue gas emissions in Sweden and says the cuts should be determined in a "few years". And the emission cuts that will come later about half of them will be allowed to be made outside of Sweden. He also want to build new nuclear plants instead of investing in more renewable energy. etc etc...

Frakkin right-wingers...

[Jim O]

I'm joining this debate/discussion late but let me offer an answer to the original question: "Why is climate change not in the USA primaries?".

The simple answer is that it isn't politically expedient to do so.

Many if not most of those who identify themselves as Republicans do not believe or doubt that there is an issue. Many would not vote for a candidate who will "raise taxes" to do something about it. Democratic candidates take the environmental vote more or less for granted, and they don't want to offend the undecideds or give Republicans an issue on which to attack.

[online.education]

Not what I said, just using that as an example. Americans are much more into "green" than you think.

In what sense?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_o ... per-capita

With the exception of island nations (holiday resort nations) and a few other nations, US consumes more oil per capita than any other nation in the world.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_c ... per-capita

Coal consumption (per capita). US is ranked 5th in the world.

Is this what you call 'green'?

[only_green_no_gray]

I know Im gonna steal this topic for a moment, but Im just to angry to care (if you care tell the moderator and I will tell him to ignore you

Roflol

...

But the truth is that all the gren progress in Sweden have been made under a left-green ruling.

The current right-wing prime minister stops policitcal decisions and tax cuts that will make it easier for people and companies to green and he refuses to stop new highway and aviation projects that will increase our co2 emissions above the required cuts from EU. He also refuses to build out the railway, as the swedish climate comission have asked for, saysing it would be too expensive. He also says no to 40% cuts in greenhosue gas emissions in Sweden and says the cuts should be determined in a "few years". And the emission cuts that will come later about half of them will be allowed to be made outside of Sweden. He also want to build new nuclear plants instead of investing in more renewable energy. etc etc...

Frakkin right-wingers...

Usually the most greener parties or those that make more greener decisions are from the left-wing, the right-winger only care about the money <!-- s:yuck: --><!-- s:yuck: -->

[Simon]

In what sense?

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_o ... per-capita

With the exception of island nations (holiday resort nations) and a few other nations, US consumes more oil per capita than any other nation in the world.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/ene_c ... per-capita

Coal consumption (per capita). US is ranked 5th in the world.

Is this what you call 'green'?

That is so true.

And dont forget that the USA have the second largest ecology and carbon footprint, right after the UAE: http://green-blog.org/2008/02/21/will-t ... -emirates/

Usually the most greener parties or those that make more greener decisions are from the left-wing, the right-winger only care about the money

You are so correct! But that doesnt mean that they are the greenest either.

Just take the example of private motorism in Sweden. The left aren't that eager to raise fuel prices because being the left party they are they want to fight all rifts between social classes - meaning that everyone should afford to have a car. Thinking like that isn't very green or smart... But sure, they are still WAY better than the right-wingers.

[Simon]

Alright, lets get back to some US politics

Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday he would give Al Gore, a Nobel prize winner, a major role in an Obama administration to address the problem of global warming.

"Obama said he would use Gore to help forge a cap-and-trade system for carbon emissions designed to lower pollution."

"I would," Obama said. "Not only will I, but I will make a commitment that Al Gore will be at the table and play a central part in us figuring out how we solve this problem. He's somebody I talk to on a regular basis. I'm already consulting with him in terms of these issues, but climate change is real. It is something we have to deal with now, not 10 years from now, not 20 years from now."

You can read the whole article here: http://www.newsvine.com/_news/2008/04/02/1...07533893#last_1

What do you think? Would Al Gore accept Obama's offer?

[mountainhiker]

Alright, lets get back to some US politics

Sen. Barack Obama said Wednesday he would give Al Gore, a Nobel prize winner, a major role in an Obama administration to address the problem of global warming.

What do you think? Would Al Gore accept Obama's offer?

Gore will be kissing his hand in accepting this! You have to realize that Gore is desperate to get back in the limelight in the US and it is his only chance to do so.

[Simon]

Gore will be kissing his hand in accepting this! You have to realize that Gore is desperate to get back in the limelight in the US and it is his only chance to do so.

Hmm I am not so sure really.

If he ever get into politics again (you know what kind of politics I mean!) I bet it is to run for the presidency. And I also bet he has a pretty good chance to win.

He has an overwhelming international support. Heck, Europe loves Al Gore (almost) more than we loved Bill Clinton.

[Steve_Barker]

Alright, lets get back to some US politics

"Obama said he would use Gore to help forge a cap-and-trade system for carbon emissions designed to lower pollution."

To have any chance of changing peoples perceptions you have to Walk the Walk. Gore Talks the Talk:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...ore-green_x.htm

I do not expect anyone to be perfect, but taking the Michael........

Similary, how can you take Tony Blair seriously as someone who realy intends to change the world as UK Climate Change Envoy, when he did little, or nothing to combat climate chane as UK Prime Minister, and he drives a Chrysler Voyager.

[Simon]

To have any chance of changing peoples perceptions you have to Walk the Walk. Gore Talks the Talk:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/business/gorehome.asp

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/edito...ore-green_x.htm

I do not expect anyone to be perfect, but taking the Michael........

Similary, how can you take Tony Blair seriously as someone who realy intends to change the world as UK Climate Change Envoy, when he did little, or nothing to combat climate chane as UK Prime Minister, and he drives a Chrysler Voyager.

Thats an old story, since it was published he has installed solar panels and are offsetting all his energy..

The second link starts with this:

"Correction: In this column that appeared Aug. 10 on the Forum Page, writer Peter Schweizer inaccurately stated that former vice president Al Gore receives royalties from a zinc mine on his property in Tennessee despite his environmental advocacy. He no longer does, as the mine was closed in 2003.!"

[mountainhiker]

Hmm I am not so sure really.

If he ever get into politics again (you know what kind of politics I mean!) I bet it is to run for the presidency. And I also bet he has a pretty good chance to win.

He has an overwhelming international support. Heck, Europe loves Al Gore (almost) more than we loved Bill Clinton.

Gore has NO chance of running for the presidency since the core of the democratic party is FIRMLY convinced that he has no chance. The democratic party has a very different system under which a candidate can be selected by "super delegates" regardless of what the members want. The fact that he cannot carry his home state has hurt him deeply inside the party.

The party sees him as a one-horse candidate, and its the wrong horse in bad financial times....

[Simon]

The party sees him as a one-horse candidate, and its the wrong horse in bad financial times....

Why is that so?