Do animals deserve rights?

[Patrick]

I guess most people saw videos of animal slaughter/cruelty like this one a pro-vegetarian site.I think most people would agree that the shown techniques are neither natural nor appropriate. I've been quite interested in this matter lately and so I did some research and thinking and I personally came to the conclusion that there's no existing proof whatsoever that animals are capable of feeling emotions the way we humans feel them (reactions to (for example) pain are no proof as it's not only possible but most likely for (most) animals just a preprogrammed reactions which could even be simulated by a robot which does, as we all agree not "feel"). There is, however, no also proof to support this and we as humans don't know how or if animals feel. At least some of them (I'm thinking monkeys (of course as they are our ancestors), dolphins and maybe some more) might be very capable of thinking and feeling much like we humans can or they might be able to do it different but not necessarily wrong or less valuable.

As for the moral matters I very much agree with this german article (translated via google, but not that good). If there is absolutely no pain or fear in the method used, it's acceptable for me. I personally don't like the process of killing in general, but it's a natural and most common thing in nature and thus not bad (if it's not done in massive slaughterhouses as this comes close to a prostitution of nature ).

Regarding our society today I strongly feel that we lost all respect and appreciation for animal life and are killing for reasons I can't justify. In fact the only reason I can think of for killing is self preservation either to get food, to make clothing out of the skin/fur (i.e. to prevent freezing to death, not for fashion of course) or in defense when attacked. The first two reasons are, considering our technological improvements, not necessary anymore as we have developed materials and methods not only more effective but cheaper. Still humanity acts as if animal life is less valuable than human life even though our natural system is based on a symbiosis of life forms of different kinds yet we behave as if we are parasites, which can be very difficult for us as a race because our survival is based on how fast we can spread to new hosts, much like viruses. If the host is killed too fast the virus will go down with it and thus is not very effective, while slower viruses who keep the host alive for a longer time (e.g. AIDS/HIV) are more effective due to the long time span between infection and death (for the record: the AIDS virus itself doesn't kill but weaken the body to a point where there is no or little resistance towards other illnesses anymore). So if we really want to exploit nature we should keep it slow. Ok, got a bit off topic, but I'm interested in your opinions towards these matters. ;)

[mountainhiker]

I guess most people saw videos of animal slaughter/cruelty like this one a pro-vegetarian site.I think most people would agree that the shown techniques are neither natural nor appropriate. I've been quite interested in this matter lately and so I did some research and thinking and I personally came to the conclusion that there's no existing proof whatsoever that animals are capable of feeling emotions the way we humans feel them (reactions to (for example) pain are no proof as it's not only possible but most likely for (most) animals just a preprogrammed reactions which could even be simulated by a robot which does, as we all agree not "feel"). There is, however, no also proof to support this and we as humans don't know how or if animals feel. At least some of them (I'm thinking monkeys (of course as they are our ancestors), dolphins and maybe some more) might be very capable of thinking and feeling much like we humans can or they might be able to do it different but not necessarily wrong or less valuable.

As for the moral matters I very much agree with this german article (translated via google, but not that good). If there is absolutely no pain or fear in the method used, it's acceptable for me. I personally don't like the process of killing in general, but it's a natural and most common thing in nature and thus not bad (if it's not done in massive slaughterhouses as this comes close to a prostitution of nature ).

Regarding our society today I strongly feel that we lost all respect and appreciation for animal life and are killing for reasons I can't justify. In fact the only reason I can think of for killing is self preservation either to get food, to make clothing out of the skin/fur (i.e. to prevent freezing to death, not for fashion of course) or in defense when attacked. The first two reasons are, considering our technological improvements, not necessary anymore as we have developed materials and methods not only more effective but cheaper. Still humanity acts as if animal life is less valuable than human life even though our natural system is based on a symbiosis of life forms of different kinds yet we behave as if we are parasites, which can be very difficult for us as a race because our survival is based on how fast we can spread to new hosts, much like viruses. If the host is killed too fast the virus will go down with it and thus is not very effective, while slower viruses who keep the host alive for a longer time (e.g. AIDS/HIV) are more effective due to the long time span between infection and death (for the record: the AIDS virus itself doesn't kill but weaken the body to a point where there is no or little resistance towards other illnesses anymore). So if we really want to exploit nature we should keep it slow. Ok, got a bit off topic, but I'm interested in your opinions towards these matters.

1) cruelty is never justified

2) animal life is less valuable than human life

3) respect and appreciation for animal life has nothing to do with animals being less valuable

4) animals were put on earth to be used and appreciated

[Simon]

1) cruelty is never justified

2) animal life is less valuable than human life

3) respect and appreciation for animal life has nothing to do with animals being less valuable

4) animals were put on earth to be used and appreciated

Well, humans are animals too. So...

"humans were put on earth to be used and appreciated".. By who? The alien overlords? ;)

[mountainhiker]

Well, humans are animals too. So...

"humans were put on earth to be used and appreciated".. By who? The alien overlords?

Hey, there are a amazing number of people who are convinced that they have been abducted by aliens, enough so that they have "abduction support" groups just like AA. Only I gather they think it is more "used" than appreciated.... :thoughtful:

[Bobby]

Point is people have to eat!! Yes I agree that slaughtering should be in the most humane way possible, but it has to be done nonetheless.

As for the aliens - can we eat them??

[Simon]

Point is people have to eat!! Yes I agree that slaughtering should be in the most humane way possible, but it has to be done nonetheless.

As for the aliens - can we eat them??

Sure, but people dont have to eat other animals...

I dont know really.. The aliens tend to want to eat us instead..

Oh wouldn't that be just frakked up if we started to eat and feast on aliens. What a contradiction to all alien movies.. ;)

[brettbh]

Well, humans are animals too. So...

"humans were put on earth to be used and appreciated".. By who? The alien overlords?

Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!

[Simon]

Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my!

Now that would be something.

A bit more serious tho.. We have global laws that are meant to protect us humans so why cant we have something similar for forests, ecosystems, oceans, animals etc and protecting them from companies and people that just see them as a free resource to plunder, destroy and use as they like?

[brettbh]

We have global laws that are meant to protect us humans so why cant we have something similar for forests, ecosystems, oceans, animals etc and protecting them from companies and people that just see them as a free resource to plunder, destroy and use as they like?

There are laws pertaining to critters and other environmental matters, but they are sadly lacking. And the majority of people really don't care that much. For example, pretty much everybody knows that cars are bad for the environment, yet few people are willing to actually alter their transportation arrangements and use, say, public transport or their feet - and there is a public outcry whenever governments attempt to do anything to address the issue (congestions charges, carbon taxes, etc.). Governments rely on public support and are not going to do anything that would cause them to lose that support, and so we end up with policies that have little regard for the environment. The only way that this can be changed (short of moving to dictatorships that do not rely on public support and can do as they please) is to rethink things on a basic level and to come up with policies that ensure that the most environmentally sound outcome is also the most profitable outcome.

>>Still humanity acts as if animal life is less valuable than human life.<<

It is and it isn't. I don't think that many people would argue that somebody who kills an ant should be treated in the same way as somebody who kills a human. In that way, animal life is undoubtedly less valuable and not deserving of the same level of protection as human life. But looking at the bigger picture, our lives are so intertwined with and dependant upon animal life, that animal life does indeed need to be protected in order to ensure that our environment is preserved.

[MollyMormon]

How we treat animals and our environment is more about who we are than what they are. If we torture animals and rape our planet that just shows what kind of people we are. I have a hard time with the idea that a killer or rapist has higher value than a contributing member of a functional ecosystem.

[Atif]

Yes, they do .......

[mountainhiker]

Yes, they do .......

Animals should be killed quickly and cleanly, other than that, utter stupidity to think they have the same rights as people.

[only_green_no_gray]

Animals should be killed quickly and cleanly, other than that, utter stupidity to think they have the same rights as people.

Humans are animals too and i bet you want to have more rights than just be killed in the quickest and cleanest way possible. They may not have the same power of mind as we have but they deserve to be treated with respect

[mountainhiker]

Humans are animals too and i bet you want to have more rights than just be killed in the quickest and cleanest way possible. They may not have the same power of mind as we have but they deserve to be treated with respect

Humans are not animals, and treating animals with respect is not the same as trying to elevate them to the level of humans.

[Simon]

Humans are animals too and i bet you want to have more rights than just be killed in the quickest and cleanest way possible. They may not have the same power of mind as we have but they deserve to be treated with respect

Well said!

Humans are not animals, and treating animals with respect is not the same as trying to elevate them to the level of humans.

Of course we humans are animals. Sure, we are supposed to be smarter than the rest of the animals on this planet, but that doesn't make us less animals.

[Lacey]

If we don't take care and help preserve the life of our animals then we won't have them anymore.  I don't think people think about that.  Animals should have rights....and we as humans should help preserve their rights by treating them with respect and kindness.

[Love 4 Mother Earth]

I think animals are already starting to have rights. When you kill a pig, or a calf, you have to do it in a "humane" fashion. At least in the EU, there are rules and regulations. 

It's not much, but it's a start. Who knows, maybe in a hundred years' time, they will have more rights, gradually.

However, considering the overpopulation on this planet - it would be impossible to feed the entire population on non-animal food. There simply isn't enough food for 6 billion people. 

And by the way, why the discrimination? Plants are living beings too. If you hug a tree, you can feel the tree responding to your hug. Scientists have even managed to record a kind of "tree language". 

For instance, if a man fells a tree with an axe, the other trees start feeling distress (this has been recorded with highly sensitive machines)

This is where it gets interesting. 

If a man holding an axe approaches the trees with the intent of cutting down trees - the trees immediately feel distressed. 

If a man holding an axe, approaches the trees in a peaceful state of mind,  without any aggressive intent  - the trees don't feel distress.

What does this show? That trees are intelligent. 

Plants are living beings too. Why should we discriminate between them and animals?  Plants should have rights too.