Norway may ban gas cars after 2015

[+Green Blog]

Photo credit: blmurch

Kristin Halvorsen, Finance Minister in Norway, has together with her Socialist Left Party proposed a plan that would forbid the sale of new cars that run solely on gasoline after 2015 in the country.

View the full article

[mountainhiker]

Halvorsen said that the resistance to the proposal in Norway is mostly based on misunderstandings:

Ah yes, the cry of the "man-made climate change" nuts. And resistance based on "misunderstandings", no its

based on common sense. You can only go to electric cars when you have the infrastructure in place to support them.

[Simon]

Ah yes, the cry of the "man-made climate change" nuts. And resistance based on "misunderstandings", no its

based on common sense. You can only go to electric cars when you have the infrastructure in place to support them.

What are you talking about? :crazy:

As the article states:

According to her proposal new cars, bought after 2015, which only uses gas as their power source would be illegal. New hybrids, cars that run partially on gas, on the other hand would still be allowed to be sold in Norway. And cars already on the road would be unaffected by the new proposed law.

You don't need a 100% EV after 2015 if the proposal becomes law. This is just what Halvorsen means with misunderstandings...

Also, many European countries have already today invested in electric charging stations in cities, and more is coming. Something that the US haven't done...

And climate change is man-made. If you try to say otherwise it's you who are the nutcase here. :rolleyes:

[mountainhiker]

And climate change is man-made. If you try to say otherwise it's you who are the nutcase here.

The NutCases are the ones that truly think the "climate change" to "totally" man made!! <_<

[Simon]

The NutCases are the ones that truly think the "climate change" to "totally" man made!!

Come on Mountainhiker, you are smarter than this. Don't turn into a rightwing troll!

[mountainhiker]

Come on Mountainhiker, you are smarter than this. Don't turn into a rightwing troll!

Has not got anything to do with being right or left, has to do with the reality that "we" are not totally responsible. That "totally manmade" is a fabrication of the left wing trolls!! Are we responsible for some, of course but 100%, not even close. If we are going to make a change then it has to be done in a responsible manner, "baning" cars sounds good but not realistic.

[Simon]

Has not got anything to do with being right or left, has to do with the reality that "we" are not totally responsible. That "totally manmade" is a fabrication of the left wing trolls!! Are we responsible for some, of course but 100%, not even close. If we are going to make a change then it has to be done in a responsible manner, "baning" cars sounds good but not realistic.

"The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) concludes that anthropogenic greenhouse gases are responsible for most of the observed temperature increase since the middle of the twentieth century, and that natural phenomena such as solar variation and volcanoes probably had a small warming effect from pre-industrial times to 1950 and a small cooling effect afterward. These basic conclusions have been endorsed by more than 40 scientific societies and academies of science, including all of the national academies of science of the major industrialized countries."

And of course it is realistic! And we need more actions and laws like this one if we are to have the slightest chance to win over man-made climate change.

[Layla]

WOW, GO Norway!!

What a fantastic progressive-thinking financial minister!!

I'd love to have a hybrid at least, if I ever do get a car..

It's great that new cars would be affected, not old ones.. Would there also be incentives for people with old cars to make them into hybrids or switch to gas etc?

I'm also amazed by Sweden!!

In Sweden the green party (currently the third biggest party in Sweden) has proposed a similar ban on gas cars by 2015. And one of the right-wing parties ( Centerpartiet) in Sweden have proposed, just like Halvorsen, that cars that only run on gas would be banned, but not until year 2025.

You guys are really thinking ahead!!

One word of consideration though: electric cars need electricity, where will this come from? (Is this why they want a nuclear powerplant too?!)

I'm not so impressed with the batteries either.. (highly toxic often) electric cars are emission-free in cities, & quiet! (which is a big plus!) It really depends where the electricity comes from though, so I hope she has something in mind for that too!!

& with gas, where do you get gas from? Here in Slovenia there was a hefty yell of outrage when the ex-Russian states obstructed getting gas to Slovenia.. If there are local resources of gas, it may indeed be better-?

So, these would be my questions & considerations.. (?)

[mountainhiker]

WOW, GO Norway!!

What a fantastic progressive-thinking financial minister!!

I'd love to have a hybrid at least, if I ever do get a car..

One word of consideration though: electric cars need electricity, where will this come from? (Is this why they want a nuclear powerplant too?!)

I'm not so impressed with the batteries either..

So, these would be my questions & considerations.. (?)

And totally valid considerations in ANY country. The recharge grid has to be in place to support the hybrids but they are in the process of developing better batteries that may well resolve part of the recharge issue. Is nuclear power the answer, maybe but clearly you do have to have power to support a recharge grid before the cars hit the road in any number....

[Layla]

hmm.. well, I'm against nuclear, so if nuclear would be 'the answer' I'd prefer gas-guzzlers on the roads.. (?) at least until a better technology would be developed.. (& as some newer models are very efficient & use much less gas..)

I'd be happy with a ban of any car with consumption of gas above ... litres/km (lowest limits possible)

& people purchasing SUVs or other gas guzzlers would have to go through a really hefty & complicated beaurocratic procedure to 'prove' they really need an SUV (especially if they're from the city or somethign!)

[Simon]

WOW, GO Norway!!

What a fantastic progressive-thinking financial minister!!

I'd love to have a hybrid at least, if I ever do get a car..

You don't need a car! I don't have one and I hope I never get one. :cute:

One word of consideration though: electric cars need electricity, where will this come from? (Is this why they want a nuclear powerplant too?!)

I'm not so impressed with the batteries either.. (highly toxic often) electric cars are emission-free in cities, & quiet! (which is a big plus!) It really depends where the electricity comes from though, so I hope she has something in mind for that too!!

More cars running on electricity means we need to build more power plants to be able to supply all of our energy needs. And lets take Europe as an example here. In 2005, 35% of electricity generated came from nuclear sources. Only 14% of electricity generated in Europe comes from renewable sources. So that means that your brand new electric car is 35% nuclear, 51% CO2 emitting and only 14% green. [source]

[mountainhiker]

[ So that means that your brand new electric car is 35% nuclear, 51% CO2 emitting and only 14% green. [source]

Still, that is better than it was a few years ago! You are trying to turn around a large ship, not a paperclip! <_<

[brettbh]

I wonder whether a hybrid vehicle - powered, at this time, by energy produced predominantly by burning coal - is actually any better for the environment than a gas powered vehicle? Are the people who currently drive hybrids helping the environment or harming it?

From Wikipedia:

According to cumulative data by the Federal Highway Administration (FHA) the number of motor vehicles has also increased steadily since 1960, only stagnating once in 1997 and declining from 1990 to 1991. Otherwise the number of motor vehicles has been rising by an estimated 3.69 million each year since 1960 with the largest annual growth between 1998 and 1999 as well as between 2000 and 2001 when the number of motor vehicles in the United States increased by eight million. Since the study by the FHA the number of vehicles has increased by approximately eleven million, one of the largest recorded increases.

We shouldn't be looking to transition to less-polluting hybrids, we should be looking to either reduce the number of vehicles on the road and/or develop zero emission vehicles.

[Simon]

What we need to do is not switch to less-polluting hybrids, but to either reduce the number of cars on the road and/or develop zero emission vehicles.

Preferably both! :)

[Layla]

Interesting thinking, Brettbh!

& interesting numbers, Simon!

I would LOVE to live with no car, it's MUCH easier in the city than in the beautiful countryside though.. still need to study the 'live with no car in countryside' more!

at least the 'crisis' has made people buy less cars - what has the government done? - gave 'em subsidies! akh!

the whole car industry needs to become more sustainable! do people really need 3 cars? can we carpool more?

also, could better quality cars be produced that could last longer?

since Fiat has bought Chrysler the car industry has been changing.. it will be interesting to see how it changes.. it would be good if environment (& environmental activists!) played a significant role in this!

[Layla]

Mountainhiker, yeah, progress may take time.. Do you have any numbers of 'years ago' & how bad it was then?

It would be great if things could happen a bit quicker though!!

IMO there's a lot of technology available already, if a fraction of military budget would go into this, A LOT could be done!!

Why put zillions of $$$ into industries that annihilate (at best) & not into industries that bring health & happiness to people?!!