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  1. I particularly like that the debate of flat earth. It's funny thinking that once people thought that they could fall into the great deep if they sailed to far

    There are those who still believe that the earth is flat ... quite literally.

    Welcome to the Flat Earth Society Homepage! Please, be our guest. Just sit back at your computer, and let us do the talking. We'll tell you who we are, what we're doing, and what we're accomplishing in the world. You can look at some of our latest theories and insights, and, if you're interested, you can even become an honorary member of the Flat Earth Society. So stick around.


  2. There is no meaningful response to climate change without massive social change. A cap on this and a quota on the other won’t do it. Tinker at the edges as we may, we cannot sustain earth’s life-support systems within the present economic system.

    Capitalism is not sustainable by its very nature. It is predicated on infinitely expanding markets, faster consumption and bigger production in a finite planet. And yet this ideological model remains the central organising principle of our lives, and as long as it continues to be so it will automatically undo (with its invisible hand) every single green initiative anybody cares to come up with.

    Another thing is that there is the following trend.

    ... But now, Ms. Jacoby said, something different is happening: anti-intellectualism (the attitude that “too much learning can be a dangerous thingâ€) and anti-rationalism (“the idea that there is no such things as evidence or fact, just opinionâ€) have fused in a particularly insidious way. ...

    Rather nauseating. Internet makes it easy for us to cite statistics and mathematical models, so I often cite these scientific data to make my case. However, there are those who simply dismiss these data as 'opinions.' There is a fundamental difference between scientific data and anecdotal opinion. If one wants to not accept a scientific theory, then he/she needs to disprove it scientifically. But, too many people seem to resort to say "It's just an opinion" and decide not to or seem to not be able to have a discussion based on logic.

  3. Personal view...............I am a little concerned.The government has known about this but they continue to push for Ethanol from Corn Cobs, which does very little or nothing for the fight against global warming. How can you even compare the two......hands down HHO.

    Once you start talking about political problems, you can go on and on about this forever. There were more electric cars than gasoline powered combustion engine cars at the turn of 20th century. There were even more steam powered (water powered) cars. But, today, most cars are gasoline powered combustion engine cars. Now, if you go back 100 years, who was one of the most influential figures? Rockefeller? Standard Oil? Somehow, today, we have petroleum based economy. Is this just a coincidence? Is this just a result of evolution ...?

  4. I vote for fish, then chicken! However, if you have every been around a chicken farm whoa, the smell is pretty ripe. Have to wonder if they have done any study as to how that smell gets into the air and what it is.

    The chickens may be giving the cows a run for the prize and they just have not researched it!

    Farmers do not grow chickens. They (or perhaps I should say farm factory workers) produce chickens or (or perhaps I should say living organisms categorized as "chicken"). I certainly agree that today's production method has a very serious problem.

  5. Am curious, how would you go about measuring a decline in nature? And what does a decline mean, in this article? If anything is declining, it's humans ability to understand nature for what it is.

    Numbers, statistics, graphs, equations, mathematical models, etc. Not anecdotes. Certain philosophical arguments are appreciated, but being so verbose about it reminds me of the following comment ...


    But now, Ms. Jacoby said, something different is happening: anti-intellectualism (the attitude that “too much learning can be a dangerous thingâ€) and anti-rationalism (“the idea that there is no such things as evidence or fact, just opinionâ€) have fused in a particularly insidious way.


  6. New York is one of few truly urban cities in US (New York, San Francisco and ... maybe Chicago). The rest of cities are horrendously designed. L.A., for example. A city that epitomizes the horrible evil destructive disastrous automobile culture. You need to drive in L.A. There is no other way to get around. It's like a big boring ugly suburb stretching out miles, miles and miles. Argh ... :yuck:

  7. It's a good profit maker, especially for the Government. I don't think many of these congestion charges, are effective in the long run. In a sense, the Government is going about this scheme, the incorrect way. As Simon says, why should people who pollute the environment pay extra, it just doesn't make sense. Plus, there are no major differences between a small or a large car in terms of polluting the air. ... The Government adds on reason of vehicle sizes, to gather more money and pursuade and brainwash the public, with 'what they think they see fit'.<<that is an actual statement in Law regulation, for anyone that is curious.

    I happen to agree for the most part. There are only two type of giant vehicles: 1. Commercial vehicles and 2. Wealthy individuals who want to drive giant vehicles. 1 need to pay for this; otherwise, they can't run their businesses. They can't start driving smaller cars all of a sudden. 2 do not care; it's peanuts to them. So, in the end, this new regulation does nothing to contribute to reduce CO2 emission.

  8. You can certainly argue that online shopping is greener, but it's not exactly greenest. After all, someone needs to come stop at your door to deliver goods and products, and chances are that someone comes to your place by car.

    I think I briefly mentioned in this forum, but the main problem is the poor urban or rather suburban development. Look at US, for example. Suburb stretches out miles and miles, while there is no public transportation system. So, no matter what you try, you are destined to burn fossil fuels and / contribute to it very significantly.

  9. New numbers from scientists at KTH in Stockholm (Sweden):

    • A cow releases 100 kilos of methan every year. Thats the same amount a car that travels 1000 miles pollutes during one year.
    • Every kilo of meat produces 14 kilos of greenhouse gas emissions.

    Lucky me I dont drive a car.. ;)

    So, eating chicken instead is ok? How about eating fish ...?

  10. Throwing rocks at the oil industries is not the solution to the problem. :thoughtful:

    So, you're saying that regulations do not matter much? You're saying that the fair and competitive market place will solve problems? If the solar power takes off, then the oil industry will stop creating so many problems?

  11. Here in the US, the middle is not too bad of a place, but to be correct, you would also have to add "Ultra Left" to that list.

    Oh, yeah, now we have the "change" sub party inside the Democratic party, they are going to Change everything on a world wide basis, can't say what they are going to change and what the changes will be but they stand for Change.


    This says something about the sad state of the country. Many understand that 'Change' is so absolutely necessary. So, instead of trying to understand issues or selecting candidates based on what they actually stand for, they'd just pick someone who can yell and scream 'Change!!!' louder than anyone else.

  12. Yeah, but who cares about the nature when you got "green" money to think of!? icon_rolleyes.gif

    I hear that it's like everyday is Christmas if you work in the old industry. Unless this part of our economy changes fundamentally, it's rather difficult for us to stop drilling in places like Alaska.

  13. No, is about what?

    Common consensus is that we always had gasoline powered cars and nothing else. Turned out that it's completely false. At the turn out of the 20th century, there were more electric cars than gasoline powered cars. There were even more steam powered cars. Both are much more environment friendly than gasoline cars.

    We do not need to go back 100 years to find electric cars. They were sold in US in 90s and they were pretty popular; there was a pretty big solid fan base. You can learn the rest if you watch the documentary.

    The whole point is that it's not like we don't have technologies available today. There are a number of reasons, or should I say 'political and social obstacles', that prevent us from driving cars not powered by gasoline.

  14. The trend is to look to a combination of diesel and gas/diesel/battery powered cars that use even less fuel. If some of the current research pays off, expect to see totally electric cars for commuters. Don't do much if you have to tow something, but for the mass that drives in to a office each day, big savings.

    Did anyone here watch 'Who Killed the Electric Car?'?

  15. This makes me mad. Who the well those farmers think they are? This is want happen when man became to greed icon_mad.gif

    Farming in Amazon is a serious problems, but these farmers are really small timers. Corporate farms are the ones who are doing the catastrophic damage to Amazon. Sadly, their names (like Cargil) are not mentioned. So, this also highlights the problem of media.

  16. The following documentary films are not exactly about Global Warming (I personally like the term 'Global Climate Change'), but they are about the environment:

    The End of Suburbia: Oil Depletion and the Collapse of the American Dream

    A Crude Awakening: The Oil Crash

    The Power of Community: How Cuba Survived Peak Oil

    Manufactured Landscapes

    The Future of Food

    Life Running Out of Control (Leben ausser Kontrolle)

    I highly recommend ...

  17. Guardian lists 10 different environmental friendly gadgets. You can find things like USBCell, a battery that you recharge via your computers USB, and the Horizon H-Racer, a hydrogen-powered toy car.

    Hydrogen being eco-friendly is a myth. It actually takes more energy to produce hydrogen than the amount of energy that the produced hydrogen can generate. Iceland figured out to make use of its geothermal energy to produce hydrogen; in other words, they essentially figured out how to create hydrogen for free. Works for them, but not for the rest of the world.